Professor Oluremi Sonaiya is the presidential candidate of the KOWA political party in Nigeria’s 2015 general elections set to hold this march. The only woman amongst 14 presidential aspirants, Sonaiya is an underdog in a contest dominated by incumbent president Goodluck Jonathan of the ruling PDP (Peoples Democratic Party) and his arch-rival, Muhammadu Buhari of the opposition party, APC (All Progressives Congress). Regardless, Sonaiya has been a loud advocate for drastic change and the radical overhaul of the country’s socio-political culture.  She has run a campaign that privileges social media because she lacks funding, an area in which the two big parties have totally outmuscled her and the KOWA party she represents.

In this interview, Professor Oluremi Sonaiya speaks with Ventures Africa’s Onyedimmakachukwu Obiukwu about the change she believes Nigeria really needs, the uphill journey towards that change and the role Women need to play in solving the socio-political challenges facing the country.

VA: We did a piece on you recently, that was last month, where we said you are the only 1 in over 30 million eligible Nigerian women contesting for president. You have said in some interviews that you just see yourself as a Nigerian, but, of course, being the only woman makes it special. Has that translated into more support for you?

Sonaiya: No, not really. I actually wonder how much support candidates get from the general population. It seems to me that most of the money that we see being splashed around probably comes from a few major sources. Maybe, because of the lack of confidence people have in the whole political system anywhere, they don’t see themselves

contributing to campaigns. A lot of people give me advice that: “we need to see you on the front of newspapers!” “How come you are not on television? On bill boards?” And things like that. They don’t realize that they should not be saying that when they have not made any contributions.

VA: So you think we should contribute more – the populace. You mentioned something, lack of confidence, and you have promised drastic change; you said we need to change the system, our political culture. Do you think the people are buying into the message itself? Are Nigerians really enthusiastic about drastic change?

Sonaiya: It is difficult to say, because who are the Nigerians that we, I, am interacting with? Those on Facebook and Twitter; going by that population, I can say I am very encouraged. But what percentage of the Nigerian population do they represent? Very little. So, I am not even certain that I can feel the pulse of the people.

VA: So, we can argue then that you have not done enough CPR, for you to feel the pulse of people. You have not done enough campaigning in essence.

Sonaiya: Yes, precisely, sort of a vicious cycle, campaign costs money.

VA: And you don’t win elections without putting in lots of money. Even the charismatic and globally admired Obama needed more than a billion dollars to win.

Sonaiya: Yes, Exactly. And people are not donating. They are expecting me to be there to campaign. How do you campaign? You do what the funds that you have available allow you to do. My funds have not allowed me to go on television. To even have a minute on television costs N785,000!

VA: Let us talk about the KOWA party. It is interesting to know that KOWA derives its meaning from several Nigerian languages in which it connotes something positive. But how many gubernatorial candidates do we have in the KOWA party?

Sonaiya: Well, off the top of my head like that, I can’t give you the exact figures, but, I do know from research, we have one in Lagos, we have in Ogun, Kwara, Oyo…

VA: (cuts in) Generally, you can’t compare the number of aspirants across all the elective levels, from the Federal House of Representatives to State House…

Sonaiya: (cuts in) KOWA has about 154 candidates across all the levels right now and that is running in 33 states.

VA: Because I am from Imo state and I have been very aware of politics in Imo State, I don’t think there is a KOWA party candidate for governorship. The point I am trying to make is that KOWA presents itself as a grassroots party, but is it doing enough in the grassroots?

Sonaiya: Hmm, well, I hope you will get this perspective; we are trying to build something here. We are trying to let Nigerians know this. Even the people on whose account you are trying to make this change, they don’t realize it right now because they are the same ones that will tell you that your party is not big, your party is not known. And well,

the big parties, where have they landed us? Where have they landed them [the masses]? So, KOWA is building something. We are at the beginning phases of trying to shift our attention from this kind of politics that is all about money; it is just draping with money and no service.

VA: There is this growing belief that Nigeria, with the PDP and APC, is moving towards a democracy dominated by two big and mighty parties as in the United States, with the Republicans and the Democrats as the main actors in their political scene. What do you think about such development?

Sonaiya: I hope these are not the two parties, even if we are going to have a two party system, I honestly hope these are not the two parties.

VA: What do you think about a two-party system?

Sonaiya: A two party system might be okay, however, I always say, then there must be an option of independent candidature. Because people have got to have a choice, so that if someone says “I don’t like A or B”, then that person must have a choice to say “I want out of this two, I want another alternative”. That is what exists in the US too, you have the Democrats, you have the Republicans, but they have independent candidates too.

VA: But, talking about the campaign funds and the strangleholds that these two parties have on Nigerian politics, do you think their domination dampens the spirit of people like you, who are trying to create an alternative?

Sonaiya: I am not frustrated, and my spirit is not dampened at all. Because it depends on how motivated you are for what you are trying to do. We are trying to make a change. I actually don’t have illusions that this is an uphill task. Like I said, even the level of awareness, of education of the people is still very low. So you don’t expect that you just go out there, and everybody will jump up and say hey! This is our saviour, she has come to deliver us – Absolutely not.

VA:  I think, in a way you also addressed this subject in your book, Daybreak Nigeria: the issues that we have in Africa, politics, the economy, corruption, impunity, lack of infrastructure, is there a quick fix, a button to click to solve our problems?

Sonaiya: If there were a button, I would say good leadership: a leadership that is exemplary. I always remember the experience that I had as a student in the United States under two different presidents. I was a student under Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan, and I sensed even within the society, a difference.  Because people know what Jimmy Carter stood for, and I believe that – maybe that is my own interpretation of it – I sensed a kind of, ‘He is no nonsense president we have there,’ somebody even by his own example cared for people, disciplined and so on. And I

felt that people were a bit more tempered. However, with Regan, a cowboy and things like that. People could say ‘we could do almost as we pleased.’ I am convinced that people read their leaders and that what they perceive to be the attitude of the leader influences what we experience on the street as well. The impunity that the ordinary Nigerian is carrying out on fellow Nigerian right now, and it is huge, it is adapted from our leaders. So when we talk about impunity, it is not only in leadership, it is us against ourselves. The police and everything, it comes from above. They set the tone. I am absolutely convinced about that, so that would be my own burden.

VA: So when you place this together with successive Nigerian governments that have been accused of revelling in recurrent expenses like inflated salaries and allowances, what can we expect when it comes to addressing the culture of profligacy and excess in governance?

Sonaiya: Talking about profligacy, I was reading in the newspaper yesterday [Tuesday] that the budget of four trillion [naira] plus was announced, was actually over twenty trillion[naira], that there were a lot that were not captured at all in that budget. There are so many para-ministerial agencies and things like that add their own budget. And they were absolutely free, they were not being monitored.

VA: That means, our problems then is not just corruption, in the sense of people stealing money and running away, it is the hyper-expenses that we pile up.

Sonaiya: This is corruption. It is still corruption. If you inflate, that is one thing. If you are not transparent, it is corruption. If you are deceptive, you bring to the Nigerian people and say that this is the amount that the country is spending, and it is not true, because you have decided to hide, it is not a mistake; it is not an oversight; it is not an error; it is a deliberate thing. “So we are not going to allow you to see into everything that is going on.” – it is corruption. I think we should not limit our definition of corruption. Since we had stealing versus corruption, it has muddled everything. But for me, it covers everything: any act of wilful injustice, wilful cover up, diversion of funds, and all of it.

VA: And this side by side with our current situation, with the fall in oil prices and our dependence on oil revenue. How do we get out of that trouble?

Sonaiya: Well, the issue of corruption has to really to be dealt with. I was looking at the budget of 2014, and there was a group of experts that looked at it, and said, just at a very minimal level of intervention, they could easily see where the Government could save N495 billion. Because the way our budget is prepared, it is as if every year, you will change the furniture in the offices, every year, you will buy new computers, new television sets. They just repeat these things.

VA: The government has proposed increasing taxes for additional revenue. Is that the best way to go?

Sonaiya: We have to pay it anyway, that is why we say we must really tackle these issues. Where all these leakages are, where all this stealing is. We have to ensure we block those holes. That’s why we say we must really tackle these issues. The level of—you mentioned—profligacy; how come certain individuals are given oil blocks? They are just given, you know, dash like that because they are close to government. Somebody just suddenly finds himself or herself so stinking rich at the expense of the rest of the people. I believe we need a kind of leadership at this time that will convince even that 1 percent that we talked about, that “it is in your interest, and ultimately you will be happier.” I’m convinced about it; they will be happier if the rest of the population can be given the minimum level of comfort, the minimum in terms of services, they will have greater peace of mind. Somebody has to engage with that group of people.

VA:  Let’s shift to security and cooperation in the Northeast. You are a professor of French. You know the issue of the Lake Chad, how it has not received enough attention, and how it could help the development of a north that currently lags in investments and economic growth. Do you think we need to learn French a bit more? Do you think we need to create better relationships with our immediate neighbours who are actually helping us out with regards to the joint force against Boko Haram.

Sonaiya: Absolutely! I am convinced that Nigeria needs to pay a more realistic attention to its role within the whole region. We like to play the big brother, but in real terms – in terms of the actual interaction with them – we are not doing enough. So you are talking about learning French; I was shocked when I went to the UNESCO office in Paris several years ago and I found that the secretary of the Nigerian delegation in UNESCO was a Ghanaian, so I said ‘What are you doing there? They did not find a French speaking Nigerian!’ I could not believe it that there was no Nigerian. How could we allow a Ghanaian to be the intermediary between us and the UNESCO? The ambassador – okay the ambassador is a political appointment, so the ambassador might not speak French, no problem.

VA: (cuts in) But he should speak French.

Sonaiya: But he should speak French! I am even saying might not, but then the staff there, there was no nobody who was speaking French among all of them, why? Because the way we choose people for those positions, you know, you

find people just struggling to be posted to France people from the ministry of external affairs and things like that. Is it not required to say only those who speak the language [should get] certain positions.  How our secretary could have been a Ghanaian when we have products from our universities that could be sent! … So our ambassadors are always there, never speaking. French is not a language like Lithuanian or something like that. You are in the West African region and you can’t find a handful of people who are competent in French to send to these places to represent you properly. It’s not that they don’t exist, but it’s that our attitude in making policy decisions, it’s just so wrong. In choosing people, it’s more of connection, it’s more of pressure group influences and things like that rather than merit.

VA: Let’s shift a bit into women in political activism. You are the only female presidential candidate, but you said in a recent interview that some people have the idea that a woman should not into politics. Do you think you have to work harder to even be considered relevant to the system?

Sonaiya: The issue about women in politics, my experience in KOWA party will not be typical of the experience of many women why? Because KOWA party is not a typical Nigerian political party. It’s really different. There was no issue about my candidature. If I had gone to join to one of these well-known parties, I will not be sitting here being interviewed by you today. You know that is clear because those well-established parties have no room, as yet, for a woman to emerge as their presidential candidate, certainly.

VA: People will argue that the women are not doing enough to want to emerge. I mean they point to the fact that only few women have really taken it up courageously.

Sonaiya: Yes. People have been saying [to me] ‘you are very brave, you are courageous,’ and things like that. And it does need some degree of that. I think what could have been more brave and courageous of me would have been to be doing what am doing in one of those big parties, but I don’t think I would have even emerged… I think the rich

buy political power. If you put your nomination fee at N20 millon, do you know that you have already cut off a lot of people, and it is no longer about the person who has the best idea, but about the person who has the most money and he’s able to wield the most influence. Let me quickly mention other challenges that women have with political party activities. The violence scares a lot of women and we have seen why. Again, KOWA party has no violence and there’s no such thing as these burning of each other’s campaign offices and stuff during rallies. That violence really does scare a lot of women. The midnight meetings put off a lot of people and we might even…

VA: (cuts in) But politics can’t do without that?

Sonaiya: What do you mean politics can’t do without that? What is it about the night? Why can you not conduct your affairs in the daytime?

VA: So you think it’s an image problem that politics itself has in our own society?

Sonaiya: Yes I think so. And I think it’s because they [politicians] want to do evil I am sorry to say. They are planning to do things cannot be done in broad daylight. Otherwise, if we want transparency in governance let us do things in broad daylight too. Transparency begins at that level, in daylight, so everything can be seen.

VA: There is the issue with societal roles about women as wives with a home and children to care for.

Sonaiya: Every woman who wants to get involved would have to look at her own circumstances. You know, women are concerned about who would take care of the children and all. Like now I am free to do it, my children are grown and out of the house.

VA: If they were young you won’t be doing this?

Sonaiya: Probably not but probably yes, it might mean I would have a challenge that I would have to face. I don’t know what it would have been. People will just have to deal with their circumstances and make provisions for issues that are equally important in their lives. That’s what am saying.

VA: You came in here today, I think you just had two people with you. We normally hear all the sirens and how politicians love to move in convoys of cars. KOWA party has just 2000 plus followers on Facebook.  You have 1000 plus followers on twitter. Does it sometimes hit you like, maybe the followers are not really there? Or, do you think politicians have to do away with the showing off, the people singing and drumming for them.

Sonaiya: I really do not like all these Nigerian politics thing, you know with a lot of fanfare. I like things to be meaningful. So that when I see a crowd of 500,000 people, I often wonder to myself how many of them are really there in terms of personal conviction. People milling around politicians. I know a lot of the time it’s because of what will come to them; there is plenty of money being distributed. Even for women, people have described a woman’s role in politics as that of cheerleaders. When Baba [a politician] gets up to speak, some women will jump up and dance and sing and things like that. They arrive in orange or green gele [headscarf]. I don’t like people being used like that. It is not dignifying.

VA: There is this report that came out recently on risk management, it talks about African political reforms not matching the developmental needs of the society. Is it that our current political class deliberately wants to forestall any chance of development and whatever we have been getting so far, is just what has managed to sneak through?

Sonaiya: It seems to be like that. In fact two things are coming into my mind. You know we were talking about the role of women. Look at how daring some women have been in the private sector, how they’ve been able to make a name for themselves in leadership, and then in the political sector how many women do we have that are really there in the forefront? There seems to be a deliberate thing to keep women out of this space. Politics is where the real decisions are taken. The decisions that affect everybody, and yet half of our population is practically shut out of that whole area.

VA: Thank you Professor Oluremi Sonaiya, it has been a pleasure speaking with you.

Sonaiya: Thank you.